• Archive through September 29, 2003 September 29 2003 - 01:46 pm [3]

I am very interested in how we are working to reintegrate former inmates into mainstream society. I have worked with a couple of men with this history and another for a year, during incarceration. Upon release, we found him immediate, shelter housing yet were unable to get him any services for a number of reasons.
1. He didn't have an address.
2. He had been in prison.
3. He was a "known sex offender."
4. He didn't have an "adequate" education.
5. He didn't have a credit history.
6. He didn't have a job.
Ironically, the greatest issue is finding long-term housing. You must report your whereabouts, I believe, every week. You must place an add in a paper, alert the neighbors, and report to the local police station so that others will know or can find out that you are a "registered sex offender." Renting or buying a home is a major undertaking and I have heard many stories of people renting under assumed names. Finding a job is another issue, entirely. We are talking about someone who's sole income and experience is in the hotel industry. Well, this is pretty much out because it is a high-risk association to owners of better hotels. The "risk" hotels (usually where many low-income, high-risk children live) will hire him on the spot.
That's all for him.
With regard to "white-collar" criminals (not at Martha Stewarts level), Some will lose everything they have including a support system. What type of program work would someone suggest be done with this group of individuals to help mainstream them again?
Strange how we can release people into the streets with a few dollars and no support and expect them to find their way somewhere for help.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Best regards

William,

I worked in a community that had a couple of "half-way" houses that taught released inmates how to live in society, gave them an address, a curfew, a breathalizer when they arrived home, and support groups that met several times a day. They helped them gain work skills through non-profit organizations such as handi-skills or enrolled them in training programs at the local community college. There was 27/7 staff available, and they held each other to very high standards.

When they did well in the group home atmosphere, they were moved to cottages where they lived as room mates and still had many of the supports but much fewer restrictions. They had sponsors in the community to help them with AA and NA meetings if needed, or to help them make necessary community connections for jobs and job training.

Programs were set up that many of the business signed up to participate in for employing these men because they were provided so much support that they were often times more reliable than their "regular" employees.

I know grant money is out there. It would be interesting to see what the recidivism rate is for folks in programs such as this one.

Another program was very similar, however it was for women and thier children. They received mandatory parenting and mentoring as a part of the program. They were not allowed to work for the first year while they worked on maintaining sobriety and learning how to parent, as well as attending mental health sessions and groups. Then they were gradually guided into the system of work and houseing. The local YWCA helped with this program. It is very successful. It was called "Women in Transition".

Check into potential funding sources and see what you can find.

Good Luck,

SW

Sounds great. It has been quite some time since I have worked with people who have experienced this. I am certain there will be many times to come. We know that many people may try to utilize Church or Temple or other resources to get a foot back into society. We need to be ready for people when they enter the door. It sounds as though you were in a great spot for this work. Everyone needs to be appreciated as being capable of making a contribution.

William,
We have a limited system in this part of the country. I am currently working on a number of boards for criminal justice/mental health looking toward providing diversion services etc. At this time we are really only working with folks who have been identified as having mental illnesses etc. but would hope to be able to expand eventually. I would be interested in hearing about any of your experiences/thoughts/knowledge on the subject as this is an area I am working on in many facets at this time (ie. developing a training curriculum for police, pre-adjudication diversion (our folks can't afford bail) post-adjudication diversion and readjustment services). All of the prisons are in the lower part of the state so for right now I only have to deal with jail level.
One of the other areas that have been investigated is the effects on families and on the prisoner...jail is not conducive to parenting, we are looking at offering parenting classes as well as the traditional substance abuse and mental health services becaust this is a real hardship on many of these families.

One of the issues that concerns me is the stability of the family when a "wage-earner" goes to jail. While Martha Stewart (Who's ideas I like) is in jail, she has a board and people she can afford to pay to care for her properties and personal dealings while incarcerated. When she goes free, she will have a nice home and belongings to return to. She will not likely "go under" or be unable to re-coop her losses.
When someone who has little income or was the primary wage earner goes to jail, the stress (in every way) falls on the remaining spouse or significant other IF they are prepared to take on the task. They may need to find extra work leaving children, who would normally have this spouse at home, alone. The reduction in income for some families of incarcerated individuals has resulted in bankruptcy or debt collection. Some have lost their home/trailer/ apartment. Further, they have limited hours to visit this person who they may still love/fear/whatever, meaning that they have to leave work to make the visiting hours at a jail that could be 10's to 100's of miles from the home. I once met a family from west Texas who traveled, in an old, beaten truck, to east Texas to visit their son. They brought their daughter-in-law, who was close to going into labor because there was no one home to watch her (of age). However, this was the only time when the truck owner could get away for a time. Limited phone calls (30 minutes each month) means that the family looses contact with dad, son, mom, daughter... Yes, we need to hold people accountable but to what extent before it destroys a family? Are there services offered to families of inmates? Is the family assigned a social worker to help assure stabilization? Is there a court advocated liason? Naw. Costs money. I am sorry that this type of work is not directly in my knowing. I have had very limited experience, though the experiences have really brought quite a bit into perspective.
The income level and ability to post bond is another very important issue. We are talking about inequality in a different light. Note that the glass ceiling and various forms of racial and ethnic bias and prejudice keep a disproportionate of non-EuroAmericans (identified as "white") in lower income brackets. The bail-bonds system (while it is the best system we have to work with) is sadly lacking in its form.
I really like the idea of "training" professionals to work with individuals. My concern is that we need to approach this in a multidimensional way. Ethics, diversity, compassion, psycho-social, and strengths trainings are only five of many ways to approach the education of professionals. I'm all for educating. However, we need to hold people to a higher level when they have these jobs, also. We need to understand that people are people, regardless of their position in life.
I woul vote heavily in favor for a compensatory damages package to go to the families of people who are imprisoned and then found innocent. Such a package should include equalization of position to the extent that there is NO record of the person having been in jail for the accusation. Also, assurance that the family be reimbursed living expenses and financial loss due to the incarceration. We need to keep in mind that just because someone is in jail does not mean that they do not have parenting skills (though I believe the parenting class is an important part of incarceration). I believe in helping the person to create a life before release. Helping to create a stable beginning through job programs and such. We also need to create a more individualized approach to punishment. Jail is not going to change the life of every person for the better. Perhaps there are alternatives (I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY.) to prison that have not been used that could be. We need to become more creative. Our prisons are overcrouded and understaffed. The guard to prisoner ratio is unacceptable. The guards work 12 on 12 off shifts and are very tense and tired. They are more prone to hurt people, themselves, when they are in this state and begin to lose judgement after 6 to 8 hours on such a shift. As in teaching, the wages are not always what they should be.
There are many issues with the system. This is only a drop in the barrel. Look forward to hearing responses.

William,

You have stated in one of your post in another forum "that prisons don't rehabilitate which is what they were suppose to do”. I would like to say if we can spend money ($300 million) on released convicts.. then why don't we use it to rehabilitate them before they are released back into society, giving them a hand up before they are released instead of a hand out(and that happens to them when they are jobless, homeless, and without the knowledge of where to go to seek help, or have enough education to acquire employment. If we would do this more of the money would go into their rehab instead of investing it in people to run organizations on the outside, with over head that will end up consuming most of it, and in the pockets of others (such as ) employees, instead of being spent on the individuals the point of rehab in the first place. I think this would let them return to society prepared and with better self esteem. The saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...seems to fit the question I propose. This would be a good form(way)of prevention, don't you think?
Ellen

Ellen,
You are right. Rehabilitation in prisons before release may greatly impact inmates.
A few problems stand in the way of offering such services in prison:
1. Some prisons are operated by privatized industry. They will consume funds for misc. expenditures just like any organization outside the institution. (Keep in mind that many grants have an addendum requiring that no more than X% of funds may be used for administrative cost no matter who gets the funds.)
2. When prisons receive funds for such programs, voices are raised in opposition stating that prisoners don't "deserve" to get all this attention... they are just supposed to "sit there."
3. The prison system is not an environment that is so conducive to learning. As any other system, there are worse places and better places.
4. There is a great deal of debate about which rehabilitative methods should be used with people to reduce or eliminate recidivism rates.
Without actually applying theories into program development for engagement, and performing long-term evaluation based work, we will not be able to confirm or deny the issues, or move on to creating a better system.
Many prisons have gone to corporates for management of the facility or operate under governmental control. Either one reduces the availability of many grants. Organizations who come into a prison often operate under their own funding. These organizations are required to supply (in some states) levels of training, insurance (liability), and protection while working with inmates. To provide these requires financial resources that grants cover at a capped level.
It is not impossible to change the system. We need devoted people to work on such issues. We also need policy changes in prisons, whether at the local, state, or national level.
There is some rehabilitative work going on at many prisons already. It is too sparse, but it happens.
What types of rehabilitation during incarceration would you propose?

Of course the real issue is the ongoing debate between punishment and rehabilitation. We talk rehad but we act punishment.

Pandora

Exactly.

William,
First, referring to the ones being released each year depending on when the rehab program would begin, would determine if someone was included in it. Like if it was only a few months to a few days till release, the ones being released would not have enough of rehabilitation time to benefit from it. Initial time to begin a program or enter one should be carried out like a school calendar year.
You know people who are in prison for 10 plus years and/or guilty of certain crimes aren’t going to want to attend rehab. There are professions that do not allow people with criminal backgrounds to hold positions, or licenses for certain careers, due to a lot of things and drug regulations is just one. That I think would determine what curriculum was offered. I do agree with this law as how would you like to find yourself sitting in a “crazed” dentist chair? A little dental humor. I know from experience that most people fear a dentist more than any other kind of doctor. I worked in this field as a dental assistant for over twenty years. It and hair styling fields are the ones the public really are picky about. You know that hair has just got to be prefect, ha ha.
Getting back to the issue, expenditures for food, shelter shouldn’t be one of them as they would already be in prison while rehab was started. Over head should only be for materials needed to teach with and to pay teachers. Of course I know teachers would need security, (but then there is the system of video teaching and online courses. In this set up you would need a room monitor. This could be a person (guard) or surveillance camera or both. When you consider outside organizations you have to consider (rent or cost of building a new building,acquiring land for building, cost of food, water, lights (air condition, heat), staff, materials for teaching, teachers, furnishings, taxes, etc) it may mean hiring a security guard, but if done by cell blocks and better placement of prisoners (not placing non violent/with violent) the guard of the cell block being taught could do the guarding. I think small classes would be more ideal for prison environment.I don’t think violent offenders should be in the program, unless it was a self defense situation. I can’t blame someone for self defense although people who self defend can also have an anger management problem, and would need to have finished an extensive anger management class if known to have an out of control temper. You know that not all would want to be in a rehab program and you couldn’t force them. (There are those who will not be better from a program. When they return to society and its pressures it will take a strong person to resist the temptations that got them in prison to start with). The same thing applies to them when they leave prison, you can’t force them to go to organizations for help, and some will be homeless, jobless, sleeping in shelters at night and on the streets the rest of the time and will end up back inside. Hopefully, rehab programs will decrease the likelihood of this happening. I don’t pretend to know the answers to the prison system problems or its inmates, but I know that they need to spend their time bettering themselves in productive ways and education offers that. I have seen people making lamps from ice cream sticks and marbles. Although they were very pretty when finished, they only served as a reminder and did nothing to direct this person in a better way. I would say that before a rehab for job skills was developed, a survey from employers willing to employ this type of employee (I know this is stereotyping) would give you an ideal of job available or a list of jobs that they could participate in. Rehab will not do anyone any good if jobs aren’t available. To days job market isn’t the best for high school graduates, college, or rehires as it stands now.
Types of Rehabilitation during Incarceration

1. Mental & social skills (problem solving) self esteem
2. employment-plumbers helper, upholstery, car wash, electricians’ helper, painters’ helper (although I think you have to be bonded to be in someone home) automobile painter, wrecker service (pending license), barber (again license), to name a “possible” few.
3. Self employment would depend on license, and being bonded. Then there the issue of how will they be perceived by the public (trustworthy?).
For the prison population that is serving time for non violent crimes,deserves to be first in line. Most of the violent offenders will serve long terms (at what point do you enter them in rehab?) in my opinion lifers (as people on death row) will never need rehab as a way of support on the outside. Though lifers might respond well to mental or social skills (improving prison society) and help improve self esteem as well.
What types of rehab do you propose?
Ellen

Ellen,
You have presented some great points. One of the most difficult issues in working with inmates to "better" themselves is helping them to identify ways that they wish to "improve" their lives. Social work involves the belief in self-determination and it's impact on the success of the client. There are some fabulous tests to help find people's strengths and preferences. As you pointed out, it is important to understand what occupations a person can and cannot get into with a record.
What this says to me is "guidance counselor." This is one step. Someone from the state employment agency can provide this service. (Unfortunately it is not a common practice in some places.)
You also point out mental and social skills (problem solving) and self esteem.
What this says to me is Psychologist, personal coaching, and support groups. The closest thing to support groups that address self esteem you may get at present are AA and NA as well as church groups that go in to minister to prisoners. I am a firm believer in psycho-social exams for all prisoners provided it can be done safely (without risk to either the prisoner or the diagnostician).
You mention, also, employment ideas such as: plumbers helper, upholstery, car wash, electricians’ helper, painters’ helper, automobile painter, wrecker service, barber, etc.
This suggests inside training programs by licensed professionals, staffed for only prison maintenance and service.
The plumbing, electrical, painting and other maintenance work can be learned on site fairly easily. There are some shelters that actually teach this type of work.
Barbers are hired that only work in prisons on a regular basis or part time. There is always a chance that two licensed trainers may be willing to teach barber work on a rotation, visiting two prisons every other day or so. They have to be licensed trainers.
I would add to this list hotel/restaurant management. It is not uncommon for inmates to prepare all of the meals. You can also add to this list; nutritionist, sanitation inspection, and chef. Housekeeping skills are also available to be developed.
OK these are good starts. They are lower-middle level income jobs. This gets someone a start.
Bonding and licensing is always an issue. That will be eliminated by double checking laws and not offering training in areas that the person may not benefit from.
For anyone to go into self-employment directly out of prison may be possible but is unlikely. It is important for anyone who has just learned a job skill to work with or under another individual for a time to hone those skills. Only so much can be taught in a prison. Small failures are magnified when someone is trying to just get back up and makes it more likely for them to give up so working with a professional after "graduation" can provide security and positive reinforcement.
I agree about non-violent prisoners being first in line for work training and skills development of the types that we listed. However, we need to be cautious of eliminating others too quickly. Violent offenders will see in the real world the same thought (to eliminate them from jobs). Keep in mind that "lifers" may still be released. Sometimes this is due to a mis-trial or new evidence being introduced.
We have to consider the instruments they will learn with. Tools can be used as weapons in prison. There needs to be a cautionpoint to reduce risk. Monitoring must be at a level to protect everyone...thus, as you pointed out, smaller groups are better. More guards are also better. Training people in construction and maintenance is risky if you use the prison as a training ground. "Oops...you know where to cut the main power." Therefor, it would be best to set up one room as a training room where you have a group build the walls, a second group install the plumbing, and a third do the electrical. At the end of the construction, you hook the electrial and plumbing up and see how it works. Once it has been completed, you have men tear it down (teaching them how to dismantle a room safely for renovation). Then, you do it all over again, requiring changes in design. The best rooms to have someone build is a kitchen and a bath. They involve all three elements.
There are many programs that can be developed. The services to families of inmates are equally, if not more important. Churches with a prison minsitry often work to get gifts and support to children of inmates at Christmas and other times of the year. Emotional and psychosocial support may be implimented to help children while their parent(s) are incarcerated. I once had a case where both parents were in jail and the child was "adopted" by a relative. The best outcome I have seen to date. As their worker, I could accompany the child to see the parents. We could have private visitation (with me monitoring) so other inmates would not be around. Most importantly, they could touch, hug, and nurture. Makes a man in prison break right down. Good release and helps the child know Dad loves them.


My friend's father is a dentist at a prison in Kansas. They only offer basic services such as root canals, pulling teeth, and fillings. Cosmetic and work that goes beyond basic needs to maintain does not happen.

William,

I would like to add to this discussion, as I just completed a fall field placement in a Kentucky state prison.

Our prisons offer a ton of programs, such as parenting skills, cognitive skills, AA, NA, individual and group counseling, vocational school, GED, college classes (offered by the university I attend - the professors volunteer), a program for sex offenders, etc. etc. There is also a comprehensive substance abuse program in which participants live in a particular housing unit, eat together, work together...

This fall, they implemented a new program (the first in our state) where dogs are brought in from the humane society. Inmates are trained to be dog trainers, and in turn spend 8 weeks training the dogs to follow basic commands, do tricks, and ring a bell when they need to go out. After the 8 weeks, the dogs can be adopted by the public for $115. So far, this program has been wildly successful - it's good public relations, and the inmates love the dogs. I was fortunate to work in the dormitory that housed the dogs, and the morale there was extremely high. There were fewer fights, and the inmates developed better relationships with staff.

The prison also offers a program for those who are about to be released called Prison to the Streets. In this program, inmates are given lists of resources they will need once they're outside, and they meet to discuss concerns about surviving outside the prison walls. I often heard positive comments from the inmates who were in the program, and the caseworkers really tried to make sure they gave them everything they would need.

I don't know if programs like these are common for every state, but all of Kentucky's prisons offer them. I'm sure there are many that I didn't think of. Corrections is my field of interest, so I was pleased to see that my state is making an effort to do more than punish. Of course, we punish them for the rest of their lives by making them ineligible for most jobs and taking away their right to vote, but that's an entirely different post.

Anyway, that's my two cents. This has been a great thread to read!

-Andrea

Andrea,
Thank you! This is great to hear. I would love to visit Kentucy sometime and see what the prisons are like. My experience is with only two prisons in Texas and two in England. They are very different places, of course. It sounds as though Kentucky is ahead of the game. I am told that there are much better prisons in Texas than one of them that I visited. It was so nice to hear it. Part of the issue depends upon the level; whether local, county, state, or federal.
I would love to hear more about how some of these individual programs worked / were done. Especially of interest is the college classes and program for sex offenders.

William,

I am not very familiar with the sex offender program, as I did not observe it during my placement.

As far as the college classes go, the prison has a building that houses classrooms and a library. Instructors from my university volunteer to come in three times a month and teach general education courses that can be applied toward a degree once the inmate is released. Once the inmates knew that I was a student at Brescia, they drove me crazy asking about specific classes, whether the teacher gave hard tests, etc.

The state pays Brescia a certain flat rate per semester for books, travel, and instruction, but the individual professors do not receive extra pay for participating in this program. Last year, the state tried to take Brescia out of the program and put in a nearby community college (Brescia is a private school, so community college would have been much cheaper), but the teachers from the community college were scared to death and wouldn't volunteer, plus the inmates threw a fit!

The inmates are really grateful for the chance to take those classes, and none of the instructors have ever been threatened in any way. They have a great deal of respect for anyone who is brave enough to come in, armed only with a radio, and treat them like human beings. Some of the inmates' writings have been published in Brescia's student newspaper, and were well received by the students I spoke with.

I hope this answered your question. When I was there, I was very impressed with the environment - it was very different from the prisons you see on TV. I walked on and off the compound every day without a staff escort, and the only thing I worried about was running into a few of the more talkative inmates and being late for class! Rehab programs have a huge impact on the inmate population, as both experience and research tell us. I don't understand why all prisons don't see the benefits....

Thank you!
I am not certain that it is about "benefits" as much as it is about the bottom dollar. My concern is that there are prisons who deal with different level of offenses. For example, white collar criminals will go to minimum-security prisons while hardened criminals (murder) will go to maximum security prisons. From what you have said, I have to asssume that you were at a minimum security prison. It sounds quite fabulous. I don't blame prisoners from being upset when someone tries to downgrade a program. I love the applied credit. That really is a great start.
What kind of time did the inmates have to study? Do you have some statistics as far as how many went on to college after being released?

Actually, this was a medium security prison, but it often housed max-level inmates whose points score decreased due to age or good behavior. Kind of interesting since our community has no idea that anyone with murder charges is housed there!

Anyway, I guess the inmates have all the time in the world to study, since going to school of any kind (GED, voc., or college) counts as their job. They have college courses three nights a month for 4 hours, and have the rest of the time to do whatever they want (they are ineligible for work for time credit, though). The GED school is M-F for 3 hours, either in the morning or afternoon, so most going for a GED work another job as well. The state recently approved giving any inmate who completes a GED $150 in their account. Needless to say, I saw a huge increase in the signups!

I'm not sure how successful the college program has been, since the prison has only been open since 1994. I do know that they are tracked after release to see (1) if they ever go on to finish a degree and (2) if they recidivate less. The only problem I have with the educational programs is that the inmates are seldom told that they can't enter certain fields (including social work!). For example, our women's prison offers courses in nursing, even though the women won't be able to get a nursing license with a felony charge. I'm not sure how much sense that makes!

So we need to change that aspect of training. I have a colleague who was married to a man with a felony. This kept her from working with children, legally. She has no record of any type but association is enough to keep her out in some states. People should never be encouraged to learn a trade that will not serve them as it sets them up for failure.
I do love the stipend addition of $150 for completing the GED. Is there a similar bonus for college courses? I would love to see colleges offer a 10% refund for tuition and fees for every A received in a course!
I am surprised that people would be unaware of the maximum level prisoners being housed in a med level prison. I assume you haven't had a lot of escape attempts?

No, the prison is pretty secure. Two 15-foot razor wire fences, with "ankle-breaker" rocks inbetween, plus two perimeter trucks containing the only two security staff members with guns. They're not going too far.

The community amazes me with what I see as a refusal to accept the fact that we have a prison. A lot of people refer to it as a "jail" and don't understand the difference. When the prison was built in 94, the county was assured that these would be nonviolent offenders, maybe just people that wrote bad checks or got into trouble with drugs. What a joke! Of the 120 inmates I dealt with (out of a population of 970), I would guess that at least 40 were sex offenders, and probably 60-70 were in for murder.

The general public is unaware that our prisons operate on a points system, and that someone who killed 12 people can eventually end up classified as medium security. Personally, I don't think our area is any less safe because of this, but I do think it should be common knowledge. Once a year, the prison has an "open house" where the inmates are locked down and the public can take a tour, and I think it shocks people when they see how tight the security is, especially if they think it's a jail.

You mentioned visiting a prison in Texas. One of the English instructors at my university worked in the prison system there for 20 years, and had a hand in developing the Texas Prison Museum. He also showed us a video clip from one of the prison rodeos. I don't suppose you got to see anything like that when you were there? I'd love to hear about those rodeos!

No, I haven't seen a prison rodeo. The closest I have been is my FFA years in Nebraska. Did a lot of rodeos there, but nothing connected to the prison system.
Hutchins Unit is the one I am most familiar with. I don't recall it's rating. Pretty major institution with a youth corrections unit next door. Quite a combination but it allows young people to see where they may end up if they continue on a negative path. Of course there are conflicting theories regarding the affect that this may have.
I believe the open house is important. I like the concept. It would be interesting if some of the inmates would visit with people, though it is probably not advisable.
I don't believe in the death penalty and so I do believe that there should be "life" prisons. Then, I believe that those who have gone to prison for things like vehicular homicide (when the death or harm is not intentional) should not be in a prison set up as we know it. Oh, so many issues and concerns.
I assume that you did not know about the prison system prior to working in it?

Andrea...wow...I certainly wish that we had some of those programs here. I spend a lot of my time in the local corrections system just trying to ensure that my clients get their meds and can attend the one substance abuse group currently running (free of charge to the facility). We had a number of sexual assaults this year and that has kept us busier than i would like, doing things i would rather not have reason to do.

Are there any Canadian social workers who could weigh in here? I live very close to the Canadian maritimes and it seems that their system is certainly different than ours?

William...speaking of youth and adult mixtures, are you old enough to remember the old "scared straight" program? I knew some men who had participated in that in California, interesting premise anyway.
I agree the open house is important but wonder how many of the people who would really benefit from the experience are coming? I do not believe that the average person in our country is aware of the conditions in our correctional system. I have seen some of the equipment such as stun belts and restraint chairs used and have been in the vicinity when pepper spray was utilized, enough to truly "get" the concept. i have talked with clients who have been isolated 23 hours a day for a week or two (does not improve mental status)...knowing that amnesty international has begun a campaign around human rights violations in american prisons validates my gut level feelings. It also makes me continue to be self-aware for any opportunities for change. As a social worker, sometimes corrections is one of the hardest host agencies to work within.

You are right, there are a lot of issues. There is certainly a class issue, some statistics show that in some inner city areas up to a third of the minority, male population may be imprisoned at any point in time.
You talked about life prisons, (I also do not believe the death penalty is an appropriate option)...I wonder what you think about mandatory sentencing and three strikes laws that remove so much discretion from the judges? In some states, Nevada for instance (a no tolerance state), you can recieve 15-life for felony trafficking in a controlled substance. In the case of this law, often the dealer can provide evidence and so gets a reduced sentence but his girlfriend or others close in ends up doing a full term as they don't have enough evidence to give! Do drug crimes deserve a life sentence or treatment? There is some substance abuse treatment in Nevada corrections but not nearly enough. These laws are also somewhat classist in that those drugs that are considered to be "inner city" and used often by minorities, such as crack cocaine, carry a much higher penalty for a smaller amount than a drug primarily used by middle class white youth.
When we sentence non-violent offenders to long terms my experience tells me that we do not rehabilitate them in any way but that they begin to become institutionalized and/or learn new criminal activities that they are going to resort to when they are released with little skills/prospects/supports and this is doubly true for my clients who have a major mental illness also.

Oh, my goodness! Scared straight? Do you remember that?! They still do that, on a smaller level, in Texas. Not quite the same affect at a city level. Of course, I believe it is against the law to do the lock up part. Do you know?
I'm not certain how I feel about isolation. It against the law with children for a reason. Some inmates are operating at a similar level. That is not to say that I don't see the value in it from a corrections standpoint.
The entire system is a "class" issue. Prison is only the beginning.
I take a different stance than "three strikes" or mandatory sentencing. I believe in a punishment equalization. Same crime gets the same punishment (with accomodation for intent) across the board. I also believe that there must be an element to accomodate for repeat offenses, such as a 10% increase over their most recent punishment, in time to serve for every offense. I don't believe in reducing sentences in return for information. I don't believe in different punishments based on the TYPE of drugs the person is selling.
I do believe in reinstating a persons civil rights if they can keep from having ANY offense (including a trafic ticket) for five+ years after being released or taken off parole (provided they did NOT commit a violent offense).
This is the short, sample list of what I believe. I am not saying that these are the best ideas. They are, simply, my ideas.
What do you think?

We watched a video in one of my classes about a geriatric prison in (I think) Alabama. I was absolutely outraged! To me, if someone is in a wheelchair, on oxygen, and cannot even push his own chair around, he is unable to be a threat to anyone. At that point in life, I think prisoners should be able to go home and die with their family present. I know that doesn't work well with the idea of punishment (as my husband, a correctional sergeant, often reminds me), but when you have to open new prisons just for aging inmates who need 24/7 medical care, it's gone too far.

We had an inmate in the prison here who found out he had multiple brain tumors and grew so weak that he had to be moved to a facility with better medical equipment. As an AMBULANCE came to transport him, I kept wondering why it would be so horrible to let him die at home. From a financial standpoint, it would cost much less than keeping him incarcerated, not to mention the fact that, once again, he couldn't have harmed anyone if he wanted to.

Just my pet peeve of the day....

I would add to that the possible benefit to their famiy in allowing them to "say goodbye." Though it could be a tremendous strain to the family if they are ill equipped to care for the inmates needs. Children need closure. At least in prison, when healthy, an inmate can look like they are OK to a child.

I would like to ask a few questions if I might. When we talk about the death sentence we are talking about people who have committed very violet crimes, they are the ones who get sentenced to death. Here's the questions I want to ask. How would you feel if someone came into your parents’ home and cut both their throats? They die by drowning in their own blood. This happened just two blocks from my home. It could have very easily happened to me & my husband. The man wanted to rake their yard and killed them instead. Would you want the person or persons who did this to be given a certain number of years, life, or death? Here's another one. Do you think that a person who sexually abuses children should serve a few years and be out? What for? Do you think that this person is going to change? Would you want this person living on your block? And here's two of the most recent crimes to date: Scott Peterson killed his wife and unborn child and was having an affair with someone. Should he have gotten life? And there's the woman who killed and cut open the woman and took her unborn child. Is she crazy? Or is she just that mean? Those were violet crimes, by both people. The jury gave Scott death, and I think it is the right choice. The woman who killed and cut open the other woman and took her baby is nuts, and if she is ever released it is my belief that she would do something like that again. She took a life in a very violet way and added to that by cutting open the mothers’ body, think about it. My word. If she got the death sentence I would not think it unfair or unjust. She took a persons life in order to take her unborn child. This was planned. I would hope that if she gets life it will be without possible parole. How would you like to have such a violet offender living in your neighborhood? Yes these people grow old, just like the ones they killed would have if they had lived. Before you take pity on the elderly in prison, you should think about what crimes did they do? and that they at least got to grow old, the murdered victims didn't, and the part about them getting to go home to die so their families can say good-bye, well the victims families more than likely didn't get to say good-bye to their loved ones either.
I remember a time when we once had what was called the chain gang. Prisoners were treated like prisoners. They didn't have what today’s inmates have. Their experiences of prison was quiet different from today’s prisons. Compared to
the chain gangs of yesterday, today’s prisons standards are greatly improved. I think after we reach a certain level of helping, we should stop. Are we being fair to the victims or their families or even to society to expect more mercy for criminals than they had on their victims?
And last but not least, Columbine, Susan Smith, and Andrea. If those two boys had not killed themselves, shouldn't they have got the death sentence? What if it had been in your school, your son's or daughter's, or maybe a grandchild’s school? What if they had been one of the victims? Is it right that Susan is still living when her two little boys drowned because of her? The front she put up. Oh how sorry I remember feeling for her. Then what contempt I had for her, and there’s Andrea. Think about what it took to drown all those children. I will always feel that her husband knew more than he let on. With that I will stop and say no more. These are just some questions I wanted to ask.
Ellen

Ellen,

As a profession, social work supports the dignity and worth of all people, and does not support the death penalty. I agree with this stance because I don't think I have the authority to decide whether someone lives or dies.

Even someone who commits a horrible crime can contribute to society. When the general public views media coverage of Columbine, the Scott Peterson trial, or any other major traumatic event, we go home and hold our children a little tighter, think less of the small things that have been bothering us because it could be so much worse, call family members to check in because we realize that the unexpected could happen.

If someone in my family was murdered, giving their killer the death penalty wouldn't bring them back. I would not want that person to be placed back out on the street, harming others, but killing him or her really wouldn't diminish my grief. Lots of research has confirmed this among victims' families after the death penalty has been administered.

Most of all, I feel that the death penalty is too easy. If someone is sentenced to death for the crimes they committed, they don't have to think about what they did every day, and they don't have to walk around in a prison where everyone knows what they did.

In the cases of Susan Smith and Andrea Yates, I am thinking (correct me if I'm wrong) that both of them suffered from untreated or maltreated mental illness. This does not give them a free pass to do whatever they please, but it's hard to condemn someone when we have no way to know what was going through his/her mind at the time.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I just don't believe in taking an eye for an eye, because that would make me as bad as the person who committed the crime. Although I would be able to say, "Well, he or she killed this person," the offender might have a similar reason for doing what he or she did. There is no way to justify taking another human being's life - it's up to God to decide when life begins and ends.

-Andrea

Actually, I like the chain-gang mentality under provision. A friend of mine sent to me some time ago an article comparing the living conditions of military personel in the deserts of Afghanistan and Iraq to that of the living conditions of a "tent" prison / work gang in some State (don't recall which). If I can find it, I will post it. The points were quite good. If our troops can go through what they do, then is it not good enough for our prisoners?

With regard to the death penalty, the person "suffers" only a fraction of the pain that was felt by their victims. It is then "over" for them. Despite knowing that the person is dead, does not completely diminish the pain of loss for the victims family. Even the fear of death is overcome by many toward the time of death. We offer what is considered "humane" death (which, of course, I would accept over inhumane death).

If a person truly receives "life in prison" (and we enforce without chance of parole), then the offender is punished by taking away anything that might mean something...and they can think about that, along with their considering their crime for the rest of their life. Further, they are punished with constant fear (living in some prisons can be quite dangerous).

With regard to the families of criminals. I am up on punishing the criminal. But when a criminal commits a crime, their family becomes a victim, as well. This is something that is highly discounted. After all, why do you care about the children of a murderer? They can get a new father through Big Brothers or a marriage. They hurt just as much. The anger is twice what the victim's family has. First they are angry at the parent for committing the crime, then they are angry at the system for taking their father away, then they are angry at the family of the victim for punishing the parent, then they are angry with the jury for giving him the death penalty. Hmmm. Wonder where the anger is going to be worked through. How will it be manifested in a child's life? The fact that there are not provisions for therapy and services for the family of criminals is a pretty major thing.
Oh, here's one; "You are just like your dad."

I wonder how many people a warden or police officer has to watch die by lethal injection or electricution before they become numb to the entire process. Even the captains in charge of old firing squads understood the extreme pain and suffering that those who commit people to punishment under go. They would give one gun a real bullet...no one being told who had it.
Another way of looking at the death penalty is:
Should the family who's loved one was the victim be given the opportunity to take their life? After all, it wasn't the "state" that the crime was against, technically. So if the state can take the life of someone who murdered my wife or child, then why not me? Then we head into the cases where someone witnessed a murder and then killed the murderer; only to end up on trial for murder themself. Is this right? We can take things on and on.

With regard to sex offenders, there were, actually, over 50 registered sex offenders supposedly living within 10 blocks of my home. This is due to the difficulty in finding housing. Perhaps 1% of my neighborhood was aware of this. However, the scary thing is that most of the addresses were false. A sex offender is required, by law, to register where they will live, notify people in the neighborhood, etc. Some are required to wear ankle brackets that trace their movement. Of course the police budget is so limited that few people are actually tracked.
I'm not certain how the law works where you live, but it is a difficult situation and one that I don't believe will be fully rectified. There are simply too many people who commit these crimes. Be aware, also, that some people who were labled with this did not actually perform a sexual act. I read one file where a man was charged with a sex crime because he was homeless and found masterbating in his camp (home for a lack of better terms). There was no other person around. There was no victim. Another file I reviewed was a charge based on a person's urinating behind a closed gas station on a highway. There was no place to urinate, so he contends desperation. There was no one registered as having been with the man. Travel across west Texas at 2:00 in the morning and you could find yourself in quite a pickle.

Andrea,
Since you seem so bent on God. He also said “Judge not least you also shall be judged", and "revengeances is my saith the lord, I shall repay". So does that mean we should not put these people in prison? When they are arrested for something that is a way of judging, and when they are sentenced that is judging. When you said "I would not want that person placed back on the streets, what do you call that? That is judging too. To say death is too easy, that is judging also. You are assuming something in your mind. God also said "if you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword". "What so ever a man sowth, he also reaps".
If you have never had a family member murdered, you do not know how it feels, and you can't speak for everyone. I think that when someone kills for the sake of killing, to put that person to death would come closer to giving closure to a person or for a family who has lost someone than life in prison has to offer. It seems that you are more for the welfare of the criminal; I suspect that’s because it is your field. With out it you would be out of a job.
Then there’s Charlie Manson, he got life. I guess you think he deserves to die peacefully with his family or extended family also. Would you be willing to spend some time with him, maybe rehabilitate him while you’re at it? Why do you think he’s still there? I read in a post from someone who had served in prison and he said you were hated more for certain crimes by the people you were in prison with than by the people on the outside. Maybe that’s a good thing, they make up for the lack of good judgment of the people on the outside. I have feelings for the under dog so to speak, but not for cold blooded murderers. I have said in other post that I understood someone self defending. In true self defense, if it was you what would you do? If it was me, I would try to defend myself as we all should have that as a constitutional right, and we do.
On behalf on Susan Smith, she flat out lied. She made up a lie about how it happened, even blaming another race for it, a black man. When she lied, it told me she knew that she had done. God also said “even to a fool knows when he’s done wrong”. He made no excuses for them, but you seem to be.
I also noted in my last post that I felt that Andrea’s husband knew more than he let on. It seems to me that if she was all that crazy, he of all people living with her and being such a devoted and caring husband of her and his children would certainly have known that she was not in any shape mentally to be burdened with so many children or to take care of them and for him to leave her alone with them without any help speaks volumes to me. Since you claim to know so much about mental illness, with what was in the news coverage about her and the information her husband provided to the press coverage doesn’t that tell you anything about how much knowledge he had of her sickness. It does me. And he walked free…exactly. Just what he wanted I presume. He was viewed as an intelligent person who worked for NASA. After all if you can assume, I can presume.
My last questions to you would be “how in the heck to put it nicely do you think that someone who commits a horrible crime can contribute to society”. If not by example of what not to do, and this is what you get for it, what’s left? And would you be willing to take these people home with you, Susan, Andrea, Scott, Charlie, and the woman who killed to get someone’s unborn child. No? Why? Sounds like a little judging going on here. Because all do not agree on something is a good reason for the group of twelve. It’s called a jury. And, no it does not make them as bad as the person who committed the crime, you therefore don’t have to worry about having the authority to decide whether someone lives or dies, just get yourself excused from jury duty if the instance for jury duty comes up calling for a possible death penalty.
There is one thing I would like to add before I close it is: this profession called social work supports the dignity and worth of “all” people seems odd to me because whether they are or they aren’t, all workers connected with the department of social services call themselves social workers and I am going to tell you that “NOT” all hold the same ideal of dignity and worth of “all” people. If this was true then Fathers would not be defamed as they are with worthless names as dead beat dads. I have mentioned this in other post I have posted here in this forum and so far no one wants to address this, I wonder why? I guess their too busy supporting the worth and dignity of inmates to waste their time with Fathers on the outside. After all if it wasn’t for the mentally ill, inmates who have or haven’t committed murder, foster care and adoption departments, run a ways, suicides, and dead beat fathers to name a few, you might be out of a job, I mean career. Everyone is so fast to defend DSS. Well lets defend the Fathers for a change, they are after all the reason that a child exist in the first place, the one who is in many instances persecuted unfairly, but Jesus was too, and the reason so many employees have a job at DSS in the first place. As I recall Jesus had a HIGH opinion of the name “Father” and was placed as head of the home as Christ is head of the church. In the circle of the DSS a Father is treated lower down than whale crap at the bottom of the sea…maybe some deserve it, but many, many don’t. They are stereotyped and looked at with malice and with a bias opinion from the DSS. That’s with all rights as long as it is from their point of view, but from my view stereotyping is a sin if I do it. You would think with that kind of attitude there just might be good reason people view the DSS as having a God syndrome. In your last paragraph you stated “there is no way to justify taking another human being’s life-it’s up to God to decide when life begins and ends. Then if that’s true, how do you justify abortion. Whether it’s done because of rape or otherwise, it’s still taking a life. I truly believe life begins at conception. Jesus spoke of the babe leaping in the womb. If we are going to following the rules then let’s not have two sets of them. One for DSS and one for the public, that’s having a double standard, two faced. Which one are you?
Ellen

I have read your posts with great interest, Ellen, and I regret the obvious loathing you hold for DSS. I can only say that I don't know anyone who works in social services who behaves the way you assume they do. I have read the situations you have posted in other threads, and I'm not saying they didn't happen; I'm just saying that things don't operate that way in my area.

I can tell that further discussion would only lead to more insults and picking apart of my every word. I don't have the answers to your questions, but I hope someone does, so that you are able to live your life without the torment you seem to be experiencing now.

Andrea,
I don't hold a loathing opinion of you or anyone else here in this forum. I have always "judged" (if I must use that word) a person by their own worth. I have always looked at a person as an individual; I draw my opinions by their actions, deeds, what’s in their hearts. If you listen to someone speak, they with their lips make the abundances of their hearts known. I have spoken on the behalf of others who in my opinion are the under dogs of the outside population.
You are not the first one to say things don't operate that way where I live or work. I only wish then that it was everywhere like where you and others work. I have spoken out about federal money bonuses and so much money going for adoptions and I have a beef about how Fathers are treated with so little respect. They are stereotyped by the actions or lack of action by other men who don't live up to their responsible. There is great bias toward men within the DSS. I know that and you know that, whether you admit it or not. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Anyway, in talking with many different ones here I have come to feel that there are social workers who really try to do good jobs, are aware of bad workers and have seen some of my beefs recognized by others. I hope the ones who are aware of the bad workers, "the minority" as they have been called, will make a real effort to weed these people out. They hurt your "cause" and hurt the reputation of your agency. It is for change that I work towards, making others aware that this kind of thing does exist. It’s your agency; all of you can make a difference for the good of all. What can be bad about fair, honest, truth, and justice?
I regret that you took my questions as personal they were for the victims, be it from a violet crime, or from unfair, unjust, bias, one sided accounts caused from a "bad" social worker hiking for a promotion and power. You don't seem to be that person. I don't have any personal torment connected with DSS, it’s for the under dog. They are everywhere, down the street, living next door, working everyday and falling future in debt. They are the parents of children who get left alone because they can't get day care for free, food stamps, no help from HUD, and the list goes on because they make too much money, yet DSS calls them (unfit?)So they are in danger of having their children removed and Fathers who aren't appreciated for any more than a support check. If they're late guess who they heard from? If the Mom on the other hand doesn't want him to see them, who cares, she only gets a slap on the hand if any thing and she isn't punished for it. Studies have shown that most violent crimes and domestic violence’s are from males who grew up without fathers. When will we see their importance in a child’s life?
When they are (he) in jail? I loved my Dad, he wasn't perfect, then neither am I, but what a difference he made in my life. These are the reason I advocate in this forum not to insult anyone but maybe in my way to rehabilitate the way others might think or see things. There's always room for improvements. If on the other hand (if the need be) I can leave this forum if I am no longer welcome here. I am an outsider and I will understand.
Ellen

I believe that the issue of Andrea's mental state was a major issue in relation to her husbands choice to leave her with the children. Depression was high, wasn't it? Hard to remember with all of the cases that have been occuring.

Social workers argue for parents to "protect" and not "leave unattended" their children or subject them to abuse or neglect. The arguements are similar. However, it is hard, from a legal standpoint, to state her husbands decision as irresponsible because she was not [at the moment] declared incompetant or a risk. This allows him to be exhonerated of contributing to the deaths. (NOTE: this is a legal, not a moral or social work stance. I am NOT saying that this is right or wrong...just that this is the situation.)

With regard to "Father" being held in high esteem, I would agree. However, SOME men have demonstrated, through their actions or lack of action, a lack of willingness to meet children's needs. I can think of two who fathered members of my family. Fortunately, my father wasn't one of them. However, when someone denies publicly what they accept personally, there is no other assumption that the public can make than that the father is unwilling to continue his parental responsibilities. What hurts most is when a father or mother asks to terminate their own parental rights when we are trying to encourage the family to stay together. I have seen both cases.

With regard to closure when a member of your family is lost through a murder, the perspective will be different for everyone. Religion, personal experiences, culture, and a host of other factors play into what we believe and we, as social workers, try to understand this within the culture of our clients. (Culture in this context refers to "family" culture which may or may not be an extension of ethnic, biographical, or other contextual roots.)

If I were in the middle-east or parts of Africa, I would need to understand that when someone steals, they may lose their hand. While I don't agree with this method of punishment, it is part of the culture and beliefs. Does it affect change? I havn't the foggiest. All who have lost people to a murder have a great deal to consider and everyone will require closure in a different manner. Some will never achieve such in any manner. Others will find closure through forgiveness. Still others will find it through the death of another. There is no right or wrong that is consistent for ALL humanity.

With regard to "social services," ONCE AGAIN, not everyone in social services is a social worker. There are "CASE WORKERS" who have never had a social work class in their entire life.

Unfortunately, you are right in that not all social workers hold the belief in the "dignity and worth of all people." However, the profession calls for social workers to uphold the dignity and worth of all people. People have "free will."

From a Christian perspective, man will pay twice for his sins. The first payment is upon earth. This includes the death penalty in some places whether we like it or not. Salvation does not override punishment on earth. The second is before God. The judgement of God is above man. Judgement by God and Judgement by man are not the same. By God, all sin is equal, except for the act of blasphemy; the only unforgivable sin. By man, all crimes against society are punished by a level system. The worse the crime, the harder the punishment.

For the most part, people on this site speak on two levels. The first is the personal. Some people here do not believe in God. Thus, they speak from the moral and ethical stance. These are equally important perspectives. Others may believe from the perspective of Bhudism, Hinduism, etc. Thus, what he/she believes may fluctuate based upon the personal.

The second is based on the law. Law is created by people, for people. We have the law in order to balance the opinions of the people with different belief systems. This is not to say it is the best or perfect system for there is none. However, it is what we have to work with.

With regard to "self defense," there have been many who have truly been defending themselves but when questioned by a judge or prosecuting attorney have lied to make it sound better for them in order to "assure" that they would decide as the person wished. This defeats the system for some and risks allowing an abuser to go free if discovered. Perjury is serious.

With regard to "dead-beat dads," as you say it has not yet been spoken of as of yet, I am not certain what you mean. You make a lot of points in your posts which is great but it is difficult to approach EVERY issue. Perhaps we can talk about one point at a time? I think I suggested this once before.
(Please see above in this post regarding part of this issue.)
"Dead-beat dads." Where did this term come from? I don't believe it was any more likely a "social worker" who coined this phrase than a fish. This is a catch phrase that has been used by media as a tool for drawing readers in. It "sells" papers. Phrasology is a major part of our media "culture" and our American "culture." It can be very harmful and very dangerous. I have known fathers who got the short end of the stick just as I have known mother's who have. I have seen people benefit when they should not have.

I can only speak about my experience with what I know. Thus, I cannot say forcertain what I would have concluded on any of the cases you have mentioned unless I knew all of the facts. I never will know the facts.

Hello William,
I always enjoy your response to my posts. You are always very thorough in your replies and sincere in your opinions. I will try to remember to refer to case workers not social workers in the future. I have come to understand that there are two very different organizations involved here. The LCSW and ACSW are two different credentials awarded by two different organizations.
The LCSW is a license to practice clinical social work and is awarded by a states Social Work Certification and Licensure Board, which is a state regulatory board governed by state law. The ACSW credential is awarded by the National Association of Social Workers (NASW), which is a private professional organization. Correct me if I am wrong when I assume that all branches operate out of the DSS. And they report information between themselves about different issues that come up…such as when a social worker is employed by a school and information about child abuse is reported to CPS or maybe it come from another source. They all work together at some point is my guess.
You once told me that CPS was not social workers but case workers, some of whom are not qualified. In one of sw post she stated she was a child protective (social worker). This is confusing to me as I want to understand what part of the system then hires cps workers? And are they case workers or social workers, what’s the difference? It can’t be the private one as they are NASW. It must the LCSW and that means that they fall under state laws. I also have read the disciplinary procedures and on what grounds the board may deny, suspend, or revoke an application, certificate, or license. A misdemeanor, a felony, gross unprofessional conduct, dishonest practice or incompetence, fraudulent or dishonest conduct and any inability to perform their functions as licensed. Any person violating any provision of this Chapter is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.
. I have also been reading about petitioning the Board to adopt, amend, or repeal a rule. I have read in many posts that stated “we are working to correct the things that need correcting. Is this something that takes place by case workers and social workers petitioning the secretary of the Board for rule-making suggestions? No special form is required, only his or her name and address and beyond the requirement that the petitioner submit the proposed text of any requested rule change and a statement of the effect of the requested change, there are no mandatory contents of a petition. Does this mean that anyone of you can summit a petition for change? Do I understand this correctly?
I wish to understand and I need and want answers. I guess when I ask the wrong thing or expect too much information that is when someone will be honest enough to tell me you can’t talk with me about that. Maybe that’s why so many times I feel like I never really get some of my questions answer directly but with examples instead of with law?
Hope everyone has a great New Year. Happy New Year!
My celebrating is over for one night.
Ellen

Ah MAN! I have lost this twice! We will try once more then give up!
OK. Let's try this again. I had this all written out and lost it, twice!
Thank you. Your compliment was very kind.
Anyhow, Ellen, You have given us a great deal to cover so I would like to break this down. We will go through a bit at a time so as not to become confused (me more than anyone).
Social Worker vs. Case Worker.

Social workers are case workers. Case workers may OR may NOT be social workers. The difference is primarily academic (literally)and experiential.
SOCIAL WORKERS~
Social work practitioners at the bachelor level (bsw) require at least two years of education specifically in social work. These classes include development of an extensive list of skills that have to be demonstrated in order to practice. Further, every student must work for a minimum of 400 hours (not counting lunch)with an MSW social worker who meets the state requirements to perform as a field instructor. Skills must be demonstrated both in the field and in the classroom. Students at the BSW level learn about social work service on two levels; micro (children, adults, families, groups, etc.) and macro (government, advocacy, international, etc.) They are required to take courses that compliment their field placement. For example, if one wants to do their field placement with child protective services, they (in most states) are required to take a class in child protection, adult protection, abuse and neglect, or another related course. Some of these courses can be quite rigorous and involved when you have a really great professor. During your courses and field experience, you are also required to participate in a reflection time with a professor and other students in order to address issues and concerns that you are dealing with. This helps the student to process what they see, hear, smell, etc. which is vital as some of the experiences in field can be quite devastating. For most students, fortunately, it will not be like medical school where they perform open heart surgery, but it can be just as (if not more) traumatic seeing a child come into a unit with abrasions and tears of the sexual organs or extremities, burn marks on the face or sex organs, etc. Fortunately, the intent of field is to provide support for social work students so that their first experience is not in the field when a supervisor is not readily available. It helps equip them in meeting the needs of the client and protecting themselves from harm.
Next we look at the requirements to graduate. In order to do so, we must have completed our coursework with high marks. Anything below a C will not do (for a reason). Professors (in most schools such as mine) hold what students call their own inquisition. They will ask questions regarding what the professors deem to be the students weaknesses. This helps to determine if they feel that they are equipped to be social workers. There is, next, a review of the field experience. This must also include a positive reference from the field instructor and the field advisor. If this all checks out, you will graduate. Of course this still does not qualify you as a social worker.
In order to practice in most places (more every day), you must pass an exam. I have taken many an exam in my 17 years of college and I can tell you that it was tougher than my PPST, GRE, LSAT, etc. and this was the subject that I focused on, solely, for two solid years! It can take the good part of the morning and is quite comprehensive. Some states (New York being one) have added course requirements beyond the normal education in order to be licensed. You now have to have a 12 hour course in child abuse/neglect. OK. We have gone through education and the exam. Next comes the CEU requirements. I am not certain how many states have this so I will talk about Texas. In order to retain my license (whether I live there or not), I must take 15 hours of additional training every single year. At least three of these must be in ethics. Should I miss one credit hour before the deadline, I would be under review and could be required to retake the licensure exam! I could also be held accountable to my state boards (which, yes, is under the department of health.) The department of social services is under this agency in some states. OK. So I have my social work license and I am able to get the training to keep it. This is all that someone with another type of degree will not have to go through to work for Child Protective Services.
Now, we need to consider some aspects of preparing for work with students.
The Council on Social Work Education accredits social work schools that can meet their very rigorous requirements. Every school is reviewed periodically to assure compliance. You can check out the ASWB and CSWE websites for this information. The exams are periodically reviewed and test questions added to assure that students are tested over new information.
The field instructors (MSW's that monitor the students at their field placements) must undergo training, provide proof of their MSW, license, etc., must take a test, and be able and willing to comply with the expectations of both the school and the CSWE.

Now, let's look at becoming a child protective services CASE WORKER.

CASE WORKER ~
Whether a social worker or not, I now have to fill out a 10 page application. There are (depending on the state) at least two interviews and a character evaluation to go through. A formal and thorough background check is performed including a reference check. You must (in many if not all states) have a bachelor degree or higher. Experience is preferred but not required. If you are hired, you will now (at least in Texas) go through a very intense 8 week training to equip you for the work. You must finally pass a written exam.
I must say that I am thankful that the process is as thorough as it is in Texas. Even then, there are people I have met that I thoroughly believe have clients who would have greatly benefited from a case worker with a social work background as opposed to a sociology or elementary education background.
I hope that this helps to clarify the difference
I will try to cover more later, but it is way to late now. I wish everyone a very merry New Year.

OK. Let's do ACSW vs. LCSW~
An LCSW may be an ACSW. An ACSW may be an LCSW.
LCSW's are permitted to work independently in mental health settings (after completion of the required training and monitoring by a qualified mental health professional.
ACSW designation does not assure that one can work independently in a mental health setting. (Please correct me if I am wrong, everyone.)
NASW is our national and state level professional organization. They create a separate standard for social workers. The purpose of this is to "raise the bar," if you will. They are so much more than just an organization because they work on a macro level on behalf of social workers, their employers (indirectly), and their clients.

ACSW
They are certified for independent, self-regulated practice. Social workers who hold the ACSW have:
• A current NASW membership;
• A master’s degree in social work from a school accredited by the Council on Social Work Education (CSWE);
• Documented two years of postgraduate social work employment and professional supervision by an ACSW or DCSW credentialed supervisor;
• Provided professional evaluations that validate their knowledge, understanding, and application of social work principles and values from an MSW supervisor and two social work colleagues;
• Verified 20 hours of relevant continuing education; and
• Agreed to adhere to the NASW Code of Ethics and NASW Standards for Continuing Professional Education, and are subject to the NASW adjudication process.
NASW professional credentials and specialty certifications provide recognition to those who have met national standards for higher levels of experience and knowledge, and are not a substitute for required state licenses or certifications.

LCSW (Texas)
Licensing Information - Specialized Education and Experience required for licensure
The board currently issues four licenses and one specialty recognition.
Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) –
• Hold an LMSW license
• obtain 3000 hours of Board approved supervised professional employment experience over a minimum two-year period, (but within a maximum four-year period or its equivalent if the experience was completed in another state.)
• Passing score on the clinical exam administered nationally by ASWB.
To qualify for the LCSW,
• Completion of a minimum of 100 hours of face-to-face supervision, over the course of the 3000 hours of experience, with a board-approved supervisor. (Supervised experience must have occurred within the five (5) previous calendar years occurring from the date of application.)

OK. Let's try this one: "we are working to correct the things that need correcting." Social workers perform on many levels including organizational level to advocate for future clients, local level to commit change, county level, state level, national level, and international level.
The following are examples of work being done by various individuals:
Organizations~
I once petitioned the board of a homeless shelter NOT to charge clients a $2.00 usage fee for the facility. We work on boards to increase services and policies that will be useful to clients, decrease services and policies that are detrimental, and support services that require guidance in various ways.
Local ~
We support the recent mayor's work in creating a homeless services building, where people may obtain direct services or referrals by agencies for direct services from one location in order to meet needs without requiring people to travel across highways, through neighborhoods, etc. for hours in order to receive help.
County~
We advocate for changes in the prescription policy at our county hospital that began charging the extreme poor for prescriptions required to maintain minimal health standards. This affected a large number of elderly and people with disabilities and cronic illnesses.
State and Federal~
Social workers are employed in government positions and also work to petition officials for changes in policy, law, etc. in order to protect clients.
Here is a list of some work being done:
(These are just in the area of health)
Health Legislation Awaits Congressional Action (September 27, 2004)
Contacts Needed NOW to all Senators Opposing the Small Business Health Fairness Act (S.545) (February 19, 2004)
Immediate Action Needed to Oppose the Medicare Prescription Drug Conference Report (November 19, 2003)
Support Changes in Medicare Prescription Drug Legislation (September 2, 2003)
Support Increased Funding for HIV/AIDS Programs (August 28, 2003)
Contacts Needed NOW to all Senators Opposing the Small Business Health Fairness Act (S.545) (August 15, 2003)
Support Changes in Medicare Prescription Drug Legislation (July 11, 2003)
Contact Your Governor Immediately to Oppose Medicaid Block Grant (May 29, 2003)
Phone Calls, Faxes & E-mails Needed NOW to all House Members Supporting Medicaid FMAP Increase on Tax Cut Bill (May 19, 2003)
Phone Calls, Faxes & E-mails Needed NOW to all House Members Opposing the Small Business Health Fairness Act (H.R. 660) (May 7, 2003)
Urgent! Phone Calls & Emails Needed NOW to Members of the House Education and Workforce Subcommittee on Employer-Employee Relations Opposing H.R. 660, the Small Business Health Fairness Act (AHPs) (April 7, 2003)
Urge the President and Congress to Support Meaningful Medicare Reform & Prescription Benefits (April 3, 2003)
Action Needed to Oppose the Small Business Health Fairness Act (February 28, 2003)
States Need Real Medicaid Help! Support an Increase in the FMAP (February 13, 2003)
Senate & House Cosponsors Needed for the Clinical Social Work Medicare Equity Act of 2003 (February 7, 2003)

Ellen,
I'm glad you are reading so much and that you are so interested in how things work in the field. Have you spoken to anyone about becoming a social worker?
It is hard to answer questions on a forum because of the amount of typing. You can see by my first post of 2005 that I was too tired and wrote out similar responses three times before I found the enter key when needed.
Inquisitive people are welcome in forums, from my perspective. I appreciate your thoughtfulness and respect on the forum. It can be quite frustrating when one wants an answer and doesn't appear to be getting it. Sometimes, it helps me to ask the same question in three ways. Sounds silly, probably, but it can help.
Well, it's back to bed. I am so tired!
Happy New Year, everyone.

Ellen,
William is correct, in that, often i think your questions don't get answered by myself as there is soooo much information per post and my feeble brain is already overloaded with grad school information...i can only answer a small portion of your posts at a time or my replies begin to lose cohesion and not make sense.

You stated, "Correct me if I am wrong when I assume that all branches operate out of the DSS. And they report information between themselves about different issues that come up…such as when a social worker is employed by a school and information about child abuse is reported to CPS or maybe it come from another source. They all work together at some point is my guess. "

Again I can only speak for where I am, but in Maine the bureau of licensing and regulation is the entity that oversees licensing, they are not connected to DHHS in any real way, except in that they are both government agencies...but not really more connected than the department of oceanography and DHHS. This makes sense in some ways...in all reality very few of the social workers in this state work for DHHS, I work for a large private mental health agency, others work for private childrens agencies, homeless shelters, etc and so on and our connections to DHHS are tenuous or strong depending on the work we are doing.
You are right that anyone can make reports to this board, it does not take a special qualification, but in my state, they can only respond to those complaints/information that pertains to licensed social workers as case workers are not governed by the same body and don't hold the same licensure. In fact, in my state, many caseworkers are required to hold a seperate credential called the mental health rehabilitiona technician-community (MHRTC to make it easier to sign). This consists of 12 classes. While this is a good start it is not equivalent to a social work education! This credential is also not overseen by a government body but by a policy institute who has less actual power to provide restriction so complaints about one of these "caseworkers" would likely go through DHHS itself.
In my state, and in most, there are many levels of social worker. In Maine most DHHS employees who are social workers are LSW which stands for licensed social worker and is a bachelors level credential. LCSW stands for licesnsed clinical social worker and is a graduate credential enabling one to practice independently. There is also an LMSW who is a licensed masters in social work but does not engage in clinical practice. There are also a number of conditional titles that are used while the mandatory period of supervised practice (2 years/96 hours for a masters in my state) is being undergone (kind of like a residency for a doctor).
Hope that helps a little...I am beginning to confuse myself...and get anxious about my testing now (thanks for the "it's harder than all the other tests" William...~grin~) so I will stop here.

Nodaproblem! Sorry Theresa. I was actually referring to the BSW exam. Not certain what the MSW one is going to be like. I am told to make certain we study the base level info. on mental health disorders.

Hello William & Theresa,
Thank you both for your efforts to help me understand. I will try to answer William first then Theresa later. William I am trying to understand, not pick at your every word.
William,
In your post of Sat. Jan. 1 you stated “This is all that someone with another type of degree will not have to go through to work for Child Protective Services”. 1. Are you talking about someone with a lesser degree?
You stated in your post of Dec. 31. “With regard to "social services," ONCE AGAIN, not everyone in social services is a social worker. There are "CASE WORKERS" who have never had a social work class in their entire life”. 2. Does this mean they have had only the basics’?
I am assuming then, that if a person wants to become a social worker, they would enter college and take the required courses/ & do clinical work (observe and/or participate at some point with supervision by a field instructor. In order to graduate you must have a grade of no less than a “c” in your courses and satisfy the professors when they have their question and answer (inquisition) sessions (3. is this per-student or as a group?) to deem you fit for social work and a positive result of your field experiences according to the review your field instructor and/or field advisor.
If all is good you will then graduate. Next is the exam by the board (?) I presume to be licensed. 4. is it a state board, or is the exam given by NASW. 5. Do you have to retake an exam if you choose work in another state, like you would for driver licenses; some states require you to take their state board exam before you can practice your profession in their state. (Not all states honor other state licenses.)
As you stated in “Texas” didn’t know if all states required this, but that in Texas the CEU requires yearly additional training to retain your license to practice social work.
In the last sentence of this paragraph you said that someone with another degree would “not” have to go through all this to work with child protective services. I would find it helpful if you could explain this more clearly.
The next thing you discussed was “case worker”.
You stated that “whether a social worker or not”, and later you stated that you had to have a bachelor degree or higher (in many if not all states). When you started the post out you said “case workers may or may NOT be social workers, the differences were primarily, (literally) academic and experiential, and in one of your post you stated “With regard to "social services," ONCE AGAIN, not everyone in social services is a social worker. There are "CASE WORKERS" who have “NEVER” had a social work class in their ENTIRE life.
In regards to the word experiential is it safe to assume it means: Teaching from a study of opinions that constitute a systematic view, decisions based on abstract reasoning, or speculations, assumptions based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture instead of practical and truth provable to all men?
Bachelor Degree is defined as:
The Bachelor of Social Work (BSW) is a professional four-year degree taught within the Department of Social Work. The BSW involves two years of general courses followed by two years of specialized courses, including practical fieldwork. Social Work graduates are employed in both the public and private sectors, in planning, administration and research, and providing services for young people, families, and the aged, people who have committed offences and people with disabilities.
So far the BSW is confusing. 6. What degree does a social worker start out with and what degree does a case worker start out with? 7. How is it possible for a case worker “who is not a social worker” be employed as a child protective services, when it is required that you have a bachelor degree in order to do so and that a bachelor degree is a social work graduate degree, and one you have described as being very hard.
I can understand the next paragraph as it explains the case worker the best as an undergraduate.
The Human Services major is a program first offered by the Department of Social Work in 2004. The program is designed for students wanting to pursue a career that involves working with people (e.g. community work, health, education, work-and-income, and the police) BUT who are not interested in a PROFESSIONAL training program such as those offered in SOCIAL WORK, educational or clinical psychology, communication disorders, and so on. The Human Services major effectively bridges the gap between academic courses (sociology, political science)
Professional courses (social work, speech and language therapy, clinical psychology.
This states to me that one is academic and the other (social work) as professional. 8. Does this mean then that a case worker is not a professional?
Post-graduate programs, like undergraduate courses, aim to foster intellectual independence, critical thinking, and professional excellence in every field.
I hope I haven’t confused you. I am use to multi-tasking as that is what working in a dental office is like when the patient load is as high as 60 to 70 patients a day. Of course there were three dental assistants working, thank goodness for that.
I have asked 8 questions and numbered them to help keep confusion down. Please let me know if I have misunderstood any information, as I probable have. Maybe I shouldn’t try to understand this.
Ellen

That's cool. I understand. I was the same way when I was doing ministry.
REGARDING #1: "In your post of Sat. Jan. 1 you stated “This is all that someone with another type of degree will not have to go through to work for Child Protective Services”. 1. Are you talking about someone with a lesser degree?"
I don't consider any bachelor degree as lesser or greater, but rather different. Someone with an English degree will likely have one class (possibly two) in sociology. Sociology is a base-level course to help people understand primary, societal concepts such as poverty, ethnicity, etc. A good professor will expound on these to some degree and help students to have a better understanding of world implications. However, they will NOT have formal education in subjects such as "working with battered women, abused and neglected children, assessment and intervention skills (vital part of social work), etc. See a comprehensive list of courses on one of the accredited school websites.

Regarding #2: You stated in your post of Dec. 31. “With regard to "social services," ONCE AGAIN, not everyone in social services is a social worker. There are "CASE WORKERS" who have never had a social work class in their entire life”. 2. Does this mean they have had only the basics’?
It means that they rely on any personal experience they have and the eight week course. Many (though not all) have less experience and training IN THIS TYPE OF WORK. At the Masters level of education, we receive even more field work experience. NOTE: for those who earn their MSW but do NOT have a BSW: They are required to take two years of courses. The first year are some of the courses that one would take for the BSW degree. They also, generally, do two years of field work at different places each year to give them a broad experience base.

Regarding #3: This is all PER STUDENT. There is little "group" grading. Each student is to receive individualized monitoring and reflection. I am not certain that the "inquisition" occurs at all colleges (it may or may not). This is something that my school did to assure themselves that they were making the right decision on whether to pass us or not.

Regarding #4: The exam is a "state board" exam. Exams fluctuate from state to state. Each state may have several versions of the same exam that are given at the same time for the same license. This helps to prevent cheating as they are now computerized. The questions are also randomized by the computer to assure that if someone does happen to be taking the same test next to another person. It is a complex set-up.

Regarding #5: Some states require you to take the exam to work. Others may honor your license from your "home" state. It depends on the state. Of those who honor other state licenses, it does NOT mean that they honor EVERY state license. They may choose which states to honor.

Regarding #?: "In the last sentence of this paragraph you said that someone with another degree would “not” have to go through all this to work with child protective services. I would find it helpful if you could explain this more clearly." I mean to say that "yearly courses are required of "social workers"; not "case workers" with a different type of degree. A person with a teaching degree will not have to take CEU courses to remain in case work at CPS.

Regarding #?: "In regards to the word experiential is it safe to assume it means: Teaching from a study of opinions that constitute a systematic view, decisions based on abstract reasoning, or speculations, assumptions based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture instead of practical and truth provable to all men?"
OOPS. Sorry. Need to be careful not to invent words. What I mean to say is that Social workers receive experience that most other degrees do not. (experience = experiential: just should not have "created" this word.)

Well, Have to go for now. Talk later.

Okay, I'll jump into this fray and see if I can simplify the answer.

Ellen,

Social workers have fought for "title protection" meaning that only someone with a social work degree and license can be called a social worker. Despite this many different people are called (and thought of) as social workers.

Traditionally a caseworker or casemanager for state social service agencies, including Child Protective Agencies, have a college degree in any of a number of fields. They may have a degree in social work (BSW) but most often do not. They do not receive any education in school specific to providing services, although depending on their degree may have had some psychology courses. I know "caseworkers" with degrees in English, Spanish, and geology. Their training is "on the job". It has been less than ten years that supervisors in our state protective service agency were required to have master's degrees, and while many got them in social work, others are in public administration (which focusses on budget and policy issues, but not on providing service). In some state agencies "caseworkers" (such as public aid caseworkers) have not necessarily needed a college degree at all, just a high school diploma! (You may be able to see why we all seem so defensive when social workers get lumped in with everyone working in social services!)

All states now have title protection, which means that the title "social worker" is limited to someone with a Bachelor's or Master's degree in social work, as well as a license. (For instance, my sister has both a BSW and an MSW but is not licensed, she cannot say she is a social worker in Illinois, although she can say she has a degree in social work. When these laws were passed, lots of folks changed the titles of jobs to comply. (For instance an agency I worked for changed the title from "Social worker" to Case Manager" or "Therapist".

Social work licensure generally has at least two levels. The first is for those folks with BSW or MSW degrees. They must pass a test as well as document their education and get references. In addition to maintain their license they must take continuing education courses equal to 30 hours every two years. (That is the Illinois requirement, other states may vary in the licensing cycle and number of hours.) The second, or clinical level, requires both the degree, documentation of supervised experience, recommendations, and passing a clinical test. California also requires an oral interview and case study to be licensed at this level. Just like the more basic level licensure, maintaining ones clinical license requires ongoing continuing education.

Hope this helps

Pandora

I would like to add that, in Kentucky, a "caseworker/eligibility worker" for social services is only required to have a high school diploma or GED, but 2 years of college is preferred. For the higher paying "social service worker" position, any 4 year degree is required, even if it's in forestry. Of course, BSWs and MSWs are preferred, but we don't exactly have them falling out of the woodwork.

Pandora,
Thank you. I now understand better, your explanation is very clear on the cps. Lets see if I got it. We are talking about on the job training,(some jobs require that you have at least finish high school or GED, or some college with a degree in something, especially if that degree might give some insight into anything related in that job,sometimes not), and in some instances they can fall under the grandfather clause after a certain amount of employment time. Is that right? I know that it use to be that way in other fields and if you were employed before a certain date,(most time before a revision of the law) you would automatically go under the clause. I guess that was because most of the time, with on the job training under someone willing to take responsibility for your actions and until things were revised; you were considered qualified to perform certain duties and operate certain machines and you were considered to know what the ones in school would be learning and therefore you were qualified under the grandfather clause. Although, you were limited on some of the added duties due to new laws that were passed. You were however required to attend certain meetings and such to receive credit on certain things in order to stay employed.
Thanks everyone,
Ellen

Andrea,
In your post you mention Kentucky. Is that where you are working? My question is: On tv I have seen a program called " Feed The Children". According to this program, it has in past programs mention Tenneessee,& Kentucky. The people (the ones who were in need) were supposed to be from the mountainous areas.
The first time I saw this program, I was shocked. I wondered how could this be? Here in America!, with welfare, HUD & other programs in place for people in need who are on the proverty level, and these people were worst than that, I couldn't believe they weren't getting any help. The only knowledge I have is what I have obtained from the tv, I assume that it is a christian charity organization food bank. They also say they feed children in other countries.
Do you have any knowledge of this organization known as Feed the Children? or any information on how these people could have been over looked?
Do you think its on the up and up?, about the living conditions of the people it represented.

Ellen

Ellen,
I do not know about kentucky in particular but I can tell you that in rural Maine I often see truly abject poverty even with (despite?) the social welfare programs that exist. I have often spent days and days working to assist a client to get a benefit because the client couldn't read and therefore did not fill out needed paperwork...the welfare system is difficult at times, for me to negotiate despite all my knowledge, i can't imagine what it would be like for someone with less resources.
The appalachian areas of tenessee and kentucky, to my knowledge do hold some of the very poorest in this country.
I do not know a ton about feed the children...
This site provides some overview of their workings
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/3691.htm
this is the feed the children website (remember they are advertising themselves!
http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/PageServer?pagename=dotorg_homepage
There are other methods to research a charities legitmacy...
If you go to google and type in "kentucky poverty" you will get a number of sites that will give you more information.
But to answer your basic question..yes, I believe that it probably is "on the up and up, about the living conditions of the people it represented". I think that for many americans it is far too easy to accept the media driven view of america as a land of plenty...the media rarely show a full picture and I have certainly seen the kind of poverty you refer to in this area, many of my clients choose between food and heating oil (it will be -12 degrees here tonight!) and while there is government help for heating oil for example, most families don't get an appointment to be approved for it until sometime in february or march!! the families who i work with are some of the most innovative and creative people i know when they are forced by circumstance to make do with much less than what is needed for basic living.

There have been other programs to serve the impoverished in Kentucky. One of my favorites is Berea College. It is not far from Lexington and serves low-income families through an arts and crafts school for the young people in the Appalachian Mountains. The following is an excerpt from their website.

Today, Berea College provides a full-tuition scholarship to every student, admits only low-income students, and requires all students to work in a college job. In addition to carrying a full academic load, students work 10-15 hours per week, which permits them to earn a portion of their educational expenses. Founded with a commitment of educating black and white students together, today the college has students from more than 60 countries and many faiths and is continually ranked as one of the leading liberal arts colleges in the nation.

Ellen, the poverty is real in this country, and lots of children are in desperate need, despite entitlement programs. I work with homeless youth, and homeless families have a terrible time claiming government assistance due to the lack of a fixed address. Rural poverty is different than urban poverty, but can be worse.

I'm not familiar with feed the children particularly, but there have been a number of exposes of similar type of organizations. Many are more into making money than distributing help to kids. Guidestar is a website that offers information about charities, including their most recent tax return. The website address is www.guidestar.org You can look at a lot of information, salaries of highest paid employees, funders etc. Look for what percentage of funds go to program expenditures versus administration. We run about 13% administrative, and 7% fundraising. For a small non-profit that is excellent. Administrative expenses should drop as the organization gets larger. (Because certain costs are then spread over a wider base.) Be very cautious about any organization with greater than 25% administrative expenses.

Pandora

Several years ago, HBO had a special called "American Holler" where a journalist actually lived with a family in the hills of eastern Kentucky for a year and documented the experience through video. I live in the western part of the state, and had never seen the kind of poverty that these families live in. They live in areas where the roads are impassable much of the time, there are no jobs because the nearest town is a 2-hour drive, and they seldom have TVs, phones, cars, or even electricity. They grow their own food and live off money they get from gathering certain roots and plants out of the woods, though it doesn't come close to meeting their basic needs.

I didn't truly believe that poverty in my state was so widespread until I saw the video. It was filmed near Hazard, KY, where Eastern KY University has a distance ed. program. I would highly encourage anyone to find this video; I'm not sure where it can be purchased or rented, but it is a real eye-opener.

Andrea,
This program was very close to what you describe and it was very depressing to know that anyone lives like that. They heated by a wood heater, cooked on it and had an out door toilet. They got their water from a well. The children were unkept and poorly dressed. The father would do work like mend fences, repair chicken coops for pay and most of it was for food in return. The house that they lived in was just a plain run down house with no screen door or screens on the windows, its really indescribable. They all looked like they needed dental care badly. I know from what you and others have said, its true, but I don't understand how they get over looked or forgotten about when our country has so many programs to help people. That is the sort of thing I have been talking about and have shown anger over in some of my post concerning needing that money at home for the people living here.We have money for war, to help other countrys to rebuild and we always help out in times of trouble like in Indonesia, and they need help very badly, but if we only had that same amount of outpouring of love for those who live in devasting surroundings here in the USA. Everyone seems to think that the USA is the promise land, but they don't know about things like this, and to make it worse, alot of people and their families come here and get government grants to go to school, build businesses, and lots of other things. But we still have americans living in worst than proverty levels.
The headlines read:Do you think U.S. tsunami aid will improve America"s image around the world?
They are worry about "image" by other countries. We need to worry more about our people and not so much about our image. Image, what is it anyway but a false impression & front anyway.
Thanks for everyones input.
Ellen

I have found it easy to find similar situations just by going into different areas of each of the major cities. I was in Dallas from 1993 to 2003 and saw dramatic differences just like you stated, between two parts of the city. SOME of the country schools have offered far better education than some of our city schools.

When working with people in different places, we do try to take into account the "culture" of the people (culture being the normative values, morals, desires, etc. of the people in a specific community). People live in very rural, isolated areas for various reasons. One may be there to avoid contact with larger society, the police,legal institutions, technology, or social change. One may go to a "family home" to care for an elderly relative and then find they cannot leave. Other reasons include a lack of educaiton, no financial means, kinship ties, mental illness, learned life behavior, feeling of "ownership" for living off the land, and even competetive or feudal relationships with "neighbors." There are many other reasons for people to live in such isolated areas; some likely better than those I have listed.

We have to honor the wishes of those clients who refuse services provided they are able to care for their families at a specific level. We have to consider that families do not have to own a tv, radio, tons of furniture, etc. to have good lives. A well is less than desireable in my book yet may have better water (where it may come from a less poluted source) than some of the city water we have. The outhouse, well, it is also something I would hate. Yet, as opposed to just a hole without walls, it is just seperate from the house. I would be concerned about a lack of ways to bathe. I don't believe it was all that far back that the Aumish began using plumbing.

The primary services to all individuals should be readily available across the board. However, bringing these to the poorest, most isolated individuals can be very difficult and working with people in the hills and mountains can be dangerous (not that this should matter.) There are some organizations that are more locally focused that go into areas and do house modernization and repairs (minimal needed) to help those who want it.

We do talk an aweful lot of sending funds to foreign governments to meet the needs of their people. We should also consider that a large portion of this does not go to the people.

There are many reports of poor, non-democratic countries who have used "propeganda" films to make America look cruel to their people. This is not so unrealistic if a country were to only get those films that point out the poverty and vice in communities and show them in their own countries. We tend to hide the poor and indigent and don't always show the worst cases even in our training videos.

In working with people in the hills, there is a huge need for mental health, dental, and medical services. Food and clothing at affordable prices (based on community resources) would be most beneficial. Creating community income opportunities that does not "force" one to leave the area unless desired would enhance lives.

Harvesting natural resources has been an issue for some who would normally hunt dear and other animals. When stocks go down in heavier winters, the following spring brings lower numbers. The parks and game division cuts "legal" bagging limits on animals and restricts hunting in various areas. This means that the people who live in the hills cannot "legally" hunt the amount of game needed to live off of. This create legal issues for anyone found "poaching" in the hills. What other group does this affect? Native Americans have the same issue at some level, even on their "own lands."

Ellen, you asked earlier about Feed the Children. I knew I had heard some negative things about them...and coincidentally ran across them in a "scorecard" of charities that Newsweek listed. Feed the Children "failed" in most categories. Only 18% of dollars went to program, and they spend $65 to raise each $100 in funding. This corresponded with my memory that they are a huge fundraiser that seems to operate more to the benefit of those raising the funds than the folks they are claiming to help. The best three or four included the American Red Cross, Lutheran Social Services, and Doctors without Borders. I think CARE was highly rated as well. Each spent at least 85% of their funds in program, and had fundraising costs at about $10 per hundred.

The list was related to tsunami fundraising charities and was not meant to be comprehensive. I suspect you could access it by going to Newsweek. Having seen the list I feel comfortable in saying that while the need is real, I wouldn't give my money to Feed the Children!

Pandora

I don't know if this is the right site or not, but I need help. I have a 27 year old special needs daughter, she has many emotional, mental and behavorial problems. Some as the result of a sexual assault by a neighbor trained in working with special needs children. He is now in prison after being convicted of sexual abuse of a 3 year old. He was given probation in our daughters case.

To make a long story short, her father and I need to get her a home or small apartment on our property that she can live in and find some independence. She is now living with us and it is making life very difficult. She has to many wrong ideas regarding life at this time so a group home is not an option. What I am looking for is finding some grants to help pay for the cost of building, or buying a modular home for her. I would appreciate any help that might be available to find out how to contact the appropriate people. Thank you.

B.
HUD (www.HUD.gov) has many funding programs, though private financing is primarily loan type. You might contact Enterprise Foundation. They help first time homebuyers and may know of an option. Another possibility is to approach an organization in your community that does community project work on a local level. Companies as large as Wal-Mart are capable.
Keep in mind that this is a very unusual request. Normally, when requests are made to help build a home for an individual with special needs, it is not on the same property of a family member who already has a home they might live in. Helping your daughter to become more independent is absolutely wonderful. Just keep this in mind when approaching agents. The issue with it being on the same property is that the agency may view it as an "improvement" for the home owner rather than a gift to a person, specifically in need. The State you live in is a very important factor in your question. Will you tell us the state?

Hi, I read with interest your topic and agree that if we release convicted felons with inadequate support they are very likely to reoffend. Unfortunately, I am responding mostly here because of a glaring spelling error in your title of the discussion. The word "reintergration," is incorrect, I believe you mean to say reintegration.

This error significantly distracts one from taking the content as seriously as you might otherwise deserve or desire.

Wes James Orr, M.S.W.

p.s. I used to work with adolescent sex offenders and these kids were released with completely insufficient "tools" and/or community and familial supports.

Hi wes,

The thread title is created by the initial poster and therefore others who post under it have no ability to change it. When it comes to typing, though, quick fingers make quick mistakes. The word processor needs a spell checker!

I am glad that you are reading the thread titles, however, as it seems that many people make initial posts that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread!

Tom from Canada

Tom is right. That can only be done by the administrator. It has now been corrected.

Linda

Let's get real, the system is set up to discriminate against the felon. The system needs to change if any felon is to have a chance at success. I'm a convicted felon but I do not fit the stereotype. I'm a white 52 year old male with no conviction prior to age 50. I was conviced of scheme to defraud after i accepted a plea deal. My crime was that i did not know (and according to the AG should have known) that one of my employees was dealing in fraud. The AG traded ammunity for statements from my employees and some said what they were told because they were afraid. Now re-employment in a professional field has been impossible for the last year. Why? Either a company flat out will not hire a felon or a felon can not be bonded. With the hundreds of employment applications I've filled out I note all the equal rights statements but felons are not included in this group. Totally unfair. As the former owner of two corporations I would also be concerned about recidivism. But, what are the chances of a white male with only one conviction, over 50, reoffending? Between slim and none. It is much more likly that a 25 year old black man with no record would commit a felony than that i would reoffend. Yet, the former group is ruled out on page one of the employment application while the later is a protected class. Please do not get the idea that i am at all racist, look up the demographics if you like.

If anyone knows of an advocate for a person in a similar situation to mine, or has more info on this subject i would appreciate hearing from them. Thanks.